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Post by hazelnutcoffee on Dec 13, 2007 13:50:33 GMT -5
Just a quick note to let you guys know I'm keeping up. sachertorte, the inconsistencies were copied and pasted directly from the PM I received.
These dossier things remind me of the logic section of the GREs. :: headache :: I feel I'm going to have to draw up a table or something to keep track of all this.
sacher, are you saying we should wait until townies reveal their own dossiers first, then pick something from there as our last attribute?
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Post by pleonast on Dec 13, 2007 13:50:48 GMT -5
Ok, the overlaps of Pleo's real Dossier with the fakes are 1 Pleonast 2 sach 1 Freud 2 Wander 1 Hazel
sach's real overlaps the fakes: 2 Pleonast 1 sach 2 Freud 2 Wander 2 Hazel
Freud's real overlaps the fakes: 0 Pleonast 1 sach 1 Freud 0 Wander 1 Hazel
Wander's real overlaps the fakes: 2 Pleonast 1 sach 0 Freud 1 Wander 0 Hazel
Hazel's real overlaps the fakes: 2 Pleonast 1 sach 3 Freud 1 Wander 1 Hazel
Looks like Wanderer should be the second killer.
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Post by sachertorte on Dec 13, 2007 13:51:49 GMT -5
Nota bene:
NAF never uses the word "shark" so don't use that word either. At first I thought he slipped it into Santo Rugger's attribute, but its USS Stark... not shark. Don't say shark.
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Post by sachertorte on Dec 13, 2007 14:06:33 GMT -5
Thanks for doing the comparison Pleonast. I was starting to get all the attributes confused in my head.
The overlaps go 4,5,6,7 (not counting Freud since she (he?) will be dead)) This will give us flexibility. We can choose the next killer based on what info has been revealed and whether we need more heat or less.
PLEASE look for holes in my plan. My biggest fears are unusual degrees and or connectivity to the rest of the graph. Also frequency of characteristics. I limited myself to increasing or decreasing attribute frequency by 1 (with the exeception of VW Bug which I removed entirely).
The way I see the Day developing is HazelNutCoffee and Me posting our Dossier's after the other three (with Town spacers of course!). I will be wary of posting info. HazelNutCoffee with be 'busy'. If town decides that posting Dossiers is bad. I'll jump onto that bandwagon. If town decides posting Dossiers is good, I'll oppose it, but 'give in'.
Overall order doesn't matter, just that we know which three go first (Pleo, FS, OAOW). That will give HazelNutCoffee and I enough data to fill in our missing ones.
An alternative is we make up an attribute and have Pleonast post it as one of his. But, and this is vitally important. Pleonast must fess up and give his game-consistent fake attribute with the explanation of his trap as soon as possible after all Dossiers are in, and before people (me) start analyzing the data. I think this move is consistent with Pleonast's personality and previous game play. Good move, or overly risky?
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Post by pleonast on Dec 13, 2007 14:15:57 GMT -5
Too risky. "Lynch all liars" is too strong a meme. With no power roles to protect/hide, there's not really a good reason for Townies to lie.
Of course, that doesn't mean one or two won't. And if they did, us copying that trait would be an obvious give-away. There'd not even be a WIFOM because it'd be obvious who copied who (order of posts). That's why I want you two to be certain to steal traits that have been revealed more than once.
I'm trying to think through the process. I don't see any flaws with the plan right now. Everyone should think about it. More eyes is better.
Also, think about how you'll approach the game as a Townie with no information.
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Post by sachertorte on Dec 13, 2007 14:23:12 GMT -5
My fears:
Connectivity. There is no way to see how our altered dossiers will fit into the larger scheme of things. I'm very worried that one or more of us have two or more overlapping attributes with someone else. That will look fishy.
If mtgman and NAF were true bastards and made it so that no two people have more than one attribute in common, we are screwed!
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Post by sachertorte on Dec 13, 2007 14:26:27 GMT -5
I'm also worried about unique attributes. If we piled all of our unique attributes onto one person, they will be very lacking in connection to the rest of the network. And the connections that do exist, point straight to scum. Shudder.
So we know who is doing the killing. Whom should FreudianSlit kill?
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Post by pleonast on Dec 13, 2007 14:30:26 GMT -5
How much overlap is there among the false Dossiers (or the real ones)?
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Post by pleonast on Dec 13, 2007 14:33:15 GMT -5
We should kill Townies who have the least overlap with our true Dossiers. Among those, the ones with the least overlap with the killer are better. Doing this will leave more Townies with scummy and killer traits. That'll make it harder for them to zero in on us and the killer in particular.
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Post by sachertorte on Dec 13, 2007 14:42:07 GMT -5
HazelNutCoffee: if possible look for someone who "once drove a VW Bug" and copy one of their OTHER attributes. That will patch a hole. But don't violate the rules above. Those rules are most important.
I will do a similar thing and look for someone who "was a former NFL cheerleader" and copy one of their OTHER attributes, if I can.
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Post by sachertorte on Dec 13, 2007 14:45:23 GMT -5
Pleonast. You describe most of the town. The only ones who overlap with us are storyteller and hawkeyeop (for real). Overlap with the fake dossiers include brewha, faithfool, and Rysto. I think we can kill anyone but these five. That leaves 9 to choose from.
From above question: The real dossiers are scum connected 4-3-3-3-1 with 7 edges. The fake dossier is scum connected 3-3-2-2-2 with 6 edges.
I could use my open slot to connect to Pleonast, which would result in a 3-3-3-3-2 graph with 7 edges.
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Post by pleonast on Dec 13, 2007 14:56:40 GMT -5
No, I don't think it's good to increase the connections among ourselves.
My strategy for killing Townies will be more useful when they've revealed their Dossiers (hmm, that's a reason they shouldn't, but best not to talk about it that, lest you'll be accused of thinking like scum).
For the first Night, using my criterion to narrow it down, pick the most experienced player. I'd say, one of Cookies, hockey, Diomedes.
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Post by sachertorte on Dec 13, 2007 14:57:29 GMT -5
EUREKA! well, sort of eureka.
Someone will be dead. That person can only express their attributes through the death post. I'm hoping they will be more fixated on the killer's attribute and not their own. Do you think the dead will express their attributes in their death post? If we can get away with the dead person not revealing this information, that should explain away any anomalies in the network. We should NOT bring this up right away. But hope that someone else does.
We should pick someone who is unlikely to want to reveal 'information.'
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Post by sachertorte on Dec 13, 2007 15:03:30 GMT -5
On a similar note, we should try to get the 'debate' about revealing Dossiers to extend past the death post.
So many contingencies? As you know HNC and I are scheduled to be the last scum to post our dossiers. We are also the ones who have attributes that match Freudian's real ones. If we post after the death post what should we do if the death post matches our attribute?
Option 1) Stick with it, and argue that you are being a truthful townie. Option 2) Switch it with an alternate "My mother was a former NFL cheerleader"
I'll let you decide what you want to do. Just be prepared for the possibility.
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Post by pleonast on Dec 13, 2007 15:04:00 GMT -5
Hmm, I'm a poor judge of character. But sounds like a good idea. Any candidates in mind?
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Post by sachertorte on Dec 13, 2007 15:10:40 GMT -5
I very much want to push the Night as long as possible. When does night end?
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Post by pleonast on Dec 13, 2007 15:57:24 GMT -5
From the public thread: Night 1 starts now. Scum have just under 48 hours to get their kill choice in, and if they get it in sooner we can start the Day sooner. Day will start, at the latest, at 11AM Pacific time on Friday December 14th. Good luck, and try to stay alive. I agree we should extend the Nights to maximum allowed. This Night in particular. I'd like to hear more feedback from the quieter Scum. Please help me and sach out. We're not as smart as it might look.
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Post by sachertorte on Dec 13, 2007 17:23:05 GMT -5
Another point of detail: NAF's PM to us put an empty line between each attribute. Make sure when you cut and paste you match the format.
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Post by mtgman on Dec 13, 2007 17:26:33 GMT -5
Night ends Friday afternoon. 2:41 PST, 4:41 CST.
Enjoy, Steven
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Post by freudianslit on Dec 13, 2007 17:29:49 GMT -5
I'm sorry...I don't mean to be quiet. It's hard, though, because this requires so much logic! I'm so glad I'm not in arithmetic class anymore.
I think what you guys are saying is good...so am I definitely going to be the first killer?
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Post by sachertorte on Dec 13, 2007 17:43:28 GMT -5
so am I definitely going to be the first killer? You don't have to be. It's just that the way the dossiers worked out you were already rather disconnected. I cleaned up the situation by removing the VWbug attribute (which I'm having second thoughts about). Anyway, if you don't want to do the nightkill, I can redo the dossiers. I just need to know who IS doing the killing.
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Post by pleonast on Dec 13, 2007 18:03:40 GMT -5
mtgman just posted on the public thread that the Night ends later then first stated. It'll end about 2:40 PT tomorrow.
If it's doable, I'll volunteer as the killer. As I said earlier, my play style lends itself to getting heat. Hmm, unless we want a cooler player to be the killer. Comments?
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Post by sachertorte on Dec 13, 2007 18:42:54 GMT -5
Eureka II:
I've been going about this all WRONG! We should be exchanging dossiers with a strong bias. For example. I'll give Pleonast all of my one-off attributes. Pleonast MUST DIE FIRST!
Once he dies, I can take over killings, and all evidence will point to Pleonast, who is already dead.
Upside: less heat for us Downside: less chance for framing
Comments? Someone think about what happens if someone mid-chain dies.
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Post by oaow on Dec 13, 2007 18:45:51 GMT -5
Hi guys. I will be MIA for the weekend. Take it as read that I agree with whoever you decide as both victim and target
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Post by sachertorte on Dec 13, 2007 20:34:04 GMT -5
Shoot. I'm sorry to have missed Wanderer. I wanted to bump him to the top of the killer list.
Dossier in killer order...
<deleted>
critique as necessary.
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Post by sachertorte on Dec 13, 2007 20:39:38 GMT -5
Notes: OAOW has pretty much all my attributes. Hopefully he will die before me. If that happens, then I can take over the nightkills and the info revealed will point mostly to OAOW. After me is Pleonast... etc.
If at some point in time we feel that we need more hits on scum, then we simply change night killers.
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Post by freudianslit on Dec 13, 2007 22:08:21 GMT -5
so am I definitely going to be the first killer? You don't have to be. It's just that the way the dossiers worked out you were already rather disconnected. I cleaned up the situation by removing the VWbug attribute (which I'm having second thoughts about). Oh, I'm more than willing. I'm a little confused, but I definitely take on the responsibility. I am more than honored to.
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Post by mtgman on Dec 14, 2007 2:41:49 GMT -5
My fears: Connectivity. There is no way to see how our altered dossiers will fit into the larger scheme of things. I'm very worried that one or more of us have two or more overlapping attributes with someone else. That will look fishy. If mtgman and NAF were true bastards and made it so that no two people have more than one attribute in common, we are screwed! FYI, NAF had very little to do with the attribute selection and assignment process. That was all me. I picked the pool, I grouped them, I assigned them. I'm the bad cop, he's the good cop, see how that works? Enjoy, Steven
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Post by oaow on Dec 14, 2007 4:01:26 GMT -5
checking in from work
sac - if u want me to be the killer I am fine with that. That's what I emant to post in my previous offering, when I said victim and target, I meant killer and target, but fluffed it (due to alcohol... )
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Post by sachertorte on Dec 14, 2007 9:31:00 GMT -5
My fears: Connectivity. There is no way to see how our altered dossiers will fit into the larger scheme of things. I'm very worried that one or more of us have two or more overlapping attributes with someone else. That will look fishy. If mtgman and NAF were true bastards and made it so that no two people have more than one attribute in common, we are screwed! FYI, NAF had very little to do with the attribute selection and assignment process. That was all me. I picked the pool, I grouped them, I assigned them. I'm the bad cop, he's the good cop, see how that works? Enjoy, Steven Well, if the case is that no one shares more than one attribute with another, then we're about to break the game. Nothing we can do about that.
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